Inspired with Nika Lawrie

Overcoming Grief and Finding Strength Through Loss with Lisa Heacock

• Lisa Heacock • Season 2024 • Episode 91

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Lisa Heacock faced an unimaginable series of losses that transformed her life and inspired her to help others navigate their own grief. Grief is multifaceted, often stemming from events beyond the death of a loved one, such as divorce or career upheavals. Lisa sheds light on how unrecognized grief can leave people feeling stuck and unfulfilled. By helping her clients identify their core values and take small yet impactful steps, she facilitates transformative personal growth. Her insights emphasize the importance of self-trust and authentic living, offering a lifeline to those grappling with unresolved emotions and lingering traumas.

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Nika Lawrie:

Lisa Hacock. Welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you here.

Lisa Heacock:

Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, so I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today. We're going to talk about grief mostly, but you have a pretty powerful story about how you've personally been impacted by grief. I know I've had a lot of trauma that's happened in my life kind of relating to that too. But before we get into that, I want you can you share a little bit about yourself. Tell me your backstory. You're a life, a holistic life coach and a grief coach as well. But how did you get into that? What's your story?

Lisa Heacock:

Yes, I mean, that is the, that is what changed the trajectory of my life, or the losses, yeah, so, as it does, you know, we, we are changed.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, right, yeah.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. So I, you know my brother and I I've got an older brother and we always say we won the parent lottery, you know which. So we grew up in a really loving home. You know, mom and dad were kind of surrogate parents to so many kids in the neighborhood, so we were really, really fortunate. So I didn't really have loss and trauma or any of that as a child.

Lisa Heacock:

In 2005, I moved from the US to the UK with my then husband and my two girls and when you're 4,000 miles away, you kind of are dreading that phone call someday. Yeah, and it did happen in 2018. So between 2018 and 2019, I lost 12 loved ones through death. Yeah, it was a lot of loss. So it's a very compound grief because it's one right after another. So I lost my niece and then my dad was diagnosed with brain cancer and so I quit my job and moved there to Seattle to just take care of him and take care of my mom. I mean, they'd been married for 55 years or something like that. So I went back and took care of him until he passed away seven months later.

Lisa Heacock:

And then I would say in between that time, then I lost my mom 14 months after my dad. She had come here to the UK after my dad had passed and she stayed for a couple months. We had a great trip. It was difficult because she's always been with my dad wanted to see, and so we just traveled around the UK.

Lisa Heacock:

And then, you know, when I dropped her off at Manchester airport, I just did not know that would be the last time I was going to see my mom. And she had passed away in her sleep. I think really just of a broken heart. She didn't give up, but I think the trauma and the loss of my dad was just too much. And then, two months after my mom passed away, we lost my 24 year old son-in-law in a tragic fall in front of my daughter, and so that call in the middle of the night has just got to be the worst. So I've lost family, and then friends and friends, children. And, like I said, it's just, it was like every time you lift your head, bam, you get hit again.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, how did you even like begin to process some of that?

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, well, you know, after we lost Jack, my focus was to try to stay above the water, so to speak, so that I could help care for my daughter. He was broken hearted, and my other daughter, my older daughter, who left Jack, and like we were all grieving, and so I the very first thing that I did after I lost my mom. So it took about 14 months, and then I thought, oh my God, I need help. And it was before Jack passed away that I hired a bereavement counselor here. I didn't know what to do, but I'm pro therapy, so I thought, well, that's got to be my first port of call, be my first port of call. I was really fortunate. She's wonderful and she helped me.

Lisa Heacock:

I was with her for a year and a half and, to be honest, I just did everything that I could. I did sound bath, gong, healing, I went to Zumba and yoga and chiropractic and massage therapy, like I just tried to do everything. And then you know what? Sometimes it was just put the hoodie over my head and watch Netflix, check out, eat chocolate and popcorn and be okay with that too. You know, sometimes it's just so hard to even get out of bed or brush your teeth, so, um, so I grabbed a hold of, you know, books and podcast, like I did everything that I truly felt like I could, just if I don't know what worked, but I was willing to try everything, all of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, that's yeah. And after I hired a therapist and I was was kind of done with her and feeling a bit more, then I hired a life coach and that's where it was kind of like this is my reality, and now what do I want to do? And that's where things changed for me in that sense, moving forward.

Nika Lawrie:

So how did that so? From the the point of like having the bereavement coach and then the life coach, how did you decide to take the step to actually move into this profession for yourself?

Lisa Heacock:

Well, it was. So I mean I tell like, when I tell this story is so weird and I don't even know how to explain it, but I was working in corporate, it was during covid. So I'm working from home and I'm typing away and I swear, somehow not like in a verbal, but somehow it was like at least you need to be a life coach. I didn't even know what that was. I Googled what a life coach was. I mean, it's not that massive in the UK. At least I didn't think so. It wasn't in my world. So I'm Googling it.

Lisa Heacock:

I was like, oh yeah, okay, well, if I'm going to be one, I'm going to and I'm going to go, you know, go down the road of certification and accreditation and all that. So I went and just did a deep dive research. But I need to hire one, like I don't know what that they do, so I should probably get one. It was really a great decision. Actually it was a good choice on my part. So I went and found the person and so for me it was more that I was going to go down that road of being a life coach that I then found a coach, and that, to me, is where it all kind of changed where I was, like I, this is something that I can do. I can take my experiences, my knowledge of working with women and men in the past that I can now bring all of my life experience, along with education, and help others kind of, you know, move through being stuck or feeling lost or, you know, grieving.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. So you went through the process becoming certified, which I commend you for doing that, because I think so often people are like I'm a life coach and they just decide to do it and there's so much that really goes into understanding you know how people behave and how people think and how to change their mindset and really to help them change habits and behaviors and all of that kind of thing. So there's a lot that really goes into that. So I commend you for actually going through the process and really becoming an expert in that field for sure.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, it was really, really important. And then getting accreditation and getting all my hours in and stuff, it was really really important for me. I don't know that many people ask me what my certification and accreditation is, but it doesn't matter because I know that I just want to give the best, so I needed to learn what that was.

Nika Lawrie:

I think that gives yourself a sense of confidence and security in your own ability to teach and support as well. Like you know, I really do know my stuff. I can really help somebody. I think that's a powerful point that comes from that kind of process.

Lisa Heacock:

A hundred percent, I agree, yeah, yeah, kind of process.

Nika Lawrie:

A hundred percent, I agree, yeah, yeah. So now that you are, you know you've moved forward in the, in the kind of transformational journey. What does it look like when clients come to see you? You know, I, I imagine there's a whole range of grief or trauma that they've experienced that you're helping them work through. What are some of those examples? What does that look like?

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, I think the most important thing to understand is that grief comes in many different forms of loss, so there's a lot of different types of losses. It's not just the loss of a loved one through death, is it? I mean there's divorce, parental alienation, so one parent is pitting the children against and using them as a tool against the other parent, which can be heartbreaking. And there are people who come to me who don't really understand that the grief or loss that they're experiencing is connected to how they're feeling. So they might come to me for life coaching and as we start to talk about areas where they feel stuck or where they're really at a crossroads or they're not really quite sure who they are and what makes them tick, and you start to look back. Maybe they were a rugby player and they had an injury and that stopped. There's a huge loss and identity and all of that wrapped in there.

Nika Lawrie:

I was going to say that I've been through some pretty major traumas and loss, but one of the hardest ones for me was leaving a career that I'd been in for a long time and I left. It was a very you know, I chose to leave, I gave my notice and quit the job, but I had worked there for a long time, you know, in the space it was kind of an important role, like I get. You know, anybody can do any job kind of thing, so it's not like that, but it was kind of an important role and it took me years to make peace with the loss of that identity and really figure out who I am on my own outside of that. And that was actually, you know, compared to some of the other traumas I've been through, it was kind of a no, not you know, it was kind of this minimal thing, but it really had a massive impact on my life. I think people-.

Lisa Heacock:

Absolutely, yes, absolutely, and I think that's such an important message because it's one of those ambiguous griefs. It's one of those ones where it's like there's not really necessarily anything to attack. You hadn't buried anyone Right and so and also kind of disenfranchised grief, meaning, like people around you are like what, what's the problem? Like you quit. So even you know, I went through a very amicable divorce about a year after we lost Jack. You know what it highlights areas in your life where you're not happy, where you know and we both looked at each other and just went God, life is really short and fragile. You know divorce is. There's still loss there. There's still you know a history of nearly 30 years. Still, you know a history of nearly 30 years. And yet people are like, well, they didn't say this to me, but you know people might think well, you left, you guys decided to do it Like you chose to leave your career. That doesn't mean that there's not pain and loss there.

Nika Lawrie:

Absolutely, yeah for sure. So when, when people come to, you know either, for let's do kind of life coaching first and then we'll separate grief, because I think it's kind of they go together but kind of two different pockets. So when somebody comes to for life coaching, say they feel stuck in a you know, maybe stuck in moving their career forward or a relationship, what are some of the kind of basic tools that you help them to maybe kind of get unstuck, to think differently, to kind of reset, if that makes sense.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, so there's a lot of mindset reset isn't there? Yeah, but one of the very core things that I do with clients know, when I talk about it it's almost like you can see people going like what, but when you get it and you go through the process is literally life-changing. So we really focus at the foundation core of their values. What are their core values? You know, if you've been in corporate world, they'll go here's our core values, here's our mission statement. Right, you need to buy into that. And you go yeah, whatever, there's no attachment to it. But then you ask someone what are your personal, your five non-negotiable core values? Most people have no idea what that is.

Nika Lawrie:

And it's actually kind of emotional and difficult when you start to think about it to really try to figure out what those are too yeah.

Lisa Heacock:

Yes. So we take them through a process of this and you know, this can be a couple sessions of just working through and narrowing down that, because then we start going, aha, these are courses, other values, but these are your non-negotiables. And when you're living out of alignment in that, that's why you feel what you're feeling, or that's why when someone says something, you respond way differently than others because they're stepping all over your values. So we want to get in alignment. So it's really more about figuring out who they are at the very core, their authentic self, you know, instead of using that word. So we hear it a lot, but there's, there's value to that, and so that is one of the very first things. And I always say, like, if you are feeling stuck, that is like a screaming siren to say move.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah.

Lisa Heacock:

Like you need to move. It doesn't mean you need to literally move from you know countries or cities, or you need to take some incremental steps, and I always say incremental steps lead to monumental change. So just the incremental steps and it is. It is, it is screaming at you do something.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, absolutely, and I take action. I get I, you know, my heart breaks cause I. I work with women all the time and and I see them feel stuck in their health, you know issues they've dealt with a chronic disease for a while or they've been in an unhealthy relationship which leads to stress and those kinds of things that then causes other health issues, and so often it's like the answer is I just feel stuck, I don't know what to do, and so I think, helping them really start to think about what it is they actually want, and then helping them take those little baby steps towards that direction and that direction, what I found personally is that as I start taking those baby steps in the direction that feels right to me, the vision becomes clearer and clearer and clearer as you kind of walk down that path.

Lisa Heacock:

Totally agree. I always say to them it's like this ball of string in your head right and like you have no idea. If you pull it's going to just all unravel. So what I want to do is just, you know, having a third party person who's not emotionally attached can kind of help pull that string. And then, like you said, it becomes more and more and more clear as you go down the road. I think I don't know if you experienced this, but I find that some individuals, or a lot of clients, just really don't trust their intuition, their gut, they don't trust themselves to make that decision.

Nika Lawrie:

I think what I've seen is that they almost a disconnect, like they almost don't feel like they are connected to themselves anymore. You know, I saw this kind of a weird way to describe it, but I saw a picture once of it was. It was a man that I think. He was like four or 500 pounds, very overweight, and it was an x-ray of his body and you could see the very thin, tiny skeleton inside and then all this other kind of skin and fat and stuff around the skeleton and the takeaway that I felt with it is like you can't even see who that person is. And I'm not trying to take away from that person at all, but like the disconnect that you would have from like who you are at the core and so really figuring out how to connect with yourself again so that you can trust your intuition and have that conversation and you know and it's I think a lot of people really struggle with just hearing what the internal voice is saying to themselves. I hope that makes sense?

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, absolutely, and that is, you know I. Each person is different, aren't they? And so they come with different viewpoints, different mindset, different experiences, different traumas, different. So what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. Right, but when you kind of generalize, you're right, it's this disconnect and or like, oh well, I've made that decision and look where it got me and so therefore I can't trust anything because it's just wrong. And so we start trying to build up their confidence and their courage and their intuition as well. And it really is about you know, it's so beautiful, isn't it?

Lisa Heacock:

When they start to, when people start to and I feel like it did this for me personally, so this is very personal is that you start to figure out who you are, what you want, what you desire, what you deserve, what you want, what you desire, what you deserve. Then you start to go down that road and you literally like, step into your power and you don't apologize. Then this is who I am. I don't have, I don't have to shrink for anyone, I don't have to apologize. It's just super empowering, and so I love watching the transition. So you're right, they'll do, they'll come for life coaching. We'd say 80% of clients I have are life coaching. There may be some grief wrapped in there. Like you said, they kind of can go hand in hand, but that's not necessarily what they first come for.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, I think so often, you know, I have people come to me for health coaching, kind of similar to that. You know they want to get healthy, they're struggling with something, they want to lose weight, whatever it is. But then when you start to peel back all the layers and really start to work with them and talk to them, so often it's, you know, a traumatic event that they haven't processed or worked through. It's a life changing, you know, like loss of identity, those kinds of things. It's a loss of a loved one. It's, you know, childhood trauma that caused them to start doing things. And what happens is that, in order to manage the struggle that comes from that trauma, they start to do kind of self-comforting habits and routines that aren't necessarily healthy for them and they get so accustomed to that safety, that comfort, that they eat the unhealthy foods or you know, the unhealthy habit routine. We still really have to start talking about some of the other stuff that goes on, some of the other you know internal life struggles that they're having.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, I mean, there's a real root cause to the way we behave or think or our habits or and our behaviors and our actions. So there's usually always a root cause to that, isn't there? Yeah?

Nika Lawrie:

So when you have a client that comes to you, you start working with them as the life coach and then you start to identify some of these grief issues. What are some of the tools or modalities that you maybe use to help them start to process and work through that grief?

Lisa Heacock:

I think it is an interesting process because you certainly don't want to just be like, hey, you're grieving this loss, like there's this kind of self-awareness, but also I don't want to push someone where they aren't ready to go. I'm not a therapist and I so either, you know, if they do end up needing therapy or counseling, I will pass them along and say, listen, you should probably do that, and some, some clients who do both coaching and therapy at the same time. But if it is that grief that they're now starting to recognize that it is, first, I think one of the most important things is giving them a safe space to be able to say and feel and say anything. You know you can't say to your friends or your family or somebody because you're afraid of their emotions. You have to carry their emotions as well as yours, right? So or you feel like you do, so it is about creating that safe space where they can just share anything, yeah. And then really, it's about validating those feelings Like no, you're not crazy, you're not broken, you're grieving, like this grieving this is grief. And so some of the tools that I would have them do after they've done these things, where they're actually speaking is sometimes they need to do some journaling and just writing, even if they're not a journaler I hate journaling, but I will, I'll type. So I'll kind of like I'll start writing something creative that they can do and or like meditation, we need to calm their nervous system. So we want to regulate their nervous system.

Lisa Heacock:

So we I talk to people about their the five senses method. I mean, I don't think that's the name of it, I just made that up, but it is where you're dealing with trauma or worry from the past. You're fearful of the future, You're worrying in the future that we want to bring you into the moment and calm your nervous system. So all of the things that everybody talks about by exercising and eating right and all of those things. But I always say you know, go outside, what do you hear, what do you see? Maybe you're having a cup of tea or drinking water.

Lisa Heacock:

But use some of those senses and it is impossible to think about your past and think about the future when you're doing that exercise, because it just brings you into the moment and that will bring their nervous system down. The cortisol is probably shooting through their system, especially once they start recognizing that this is grief, because all those emotions start coming up. So that is one of the things I want to make sure we calm their nervous systems. There's all different tools and stuff and I think it really just depends. I kind of use my intuition about what's best for this client right now, like, what do they need right now?

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, definitely Are there. Even you've already kind of given a few examples. But are there some things that people can do, kind of self-care strategies almost, that they can start to do? Let me step back. I know when I was going through a traumatic event, you actually said something that was really profound for me when I learned it a few years ago was I'm not broken, I'm not crazy, I'm grieving. Like that was so key for me to learn and understand, and once I learned that I was able to kind of take the pressure off myself or not feel so guilty maybe I don't know if guilt is the right word, but I definitely felt like it was my fault or I was broken. But when I was able to understand that, I was able to start taking care of myself, doing things kind of differently like you were talking about, you know, meditating or going outside, those kind of things. Are there any specific self-care strategies that you would recommend that kind of help kind of break that sadness routine or or kind of break the everyday cycle?

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, I it's. It is one of those things where, depending on the loss and depending on if you're in this acute grief so if it's right now and it's fresh, sometimes it's just like I said, it's hard to even get up and brush your teeth and you're definitely not going to the grocery store and you're certainly not cooking. So it depends on where you are in the process and how you're experiencing this loss. But I think that that is absolutely key is to understand that you are grieving.

Lisa Heacock:

Grief and guilt are like a married couple. They go hand in hand. So when you were talking about guilt, like it usually follows, like it's there, and so it is. You know, the the again, it's this, this language that we use, but it's there for a reason. So, being kind to yourself and allowing yourself to just be, and if that is just laying on the couch at that moment, then not to feel bad about that. The other thing that I think is very important that we kind of because we can sit there and go oh, you should, you know, yes, exercise, eat right, you know drink your water, go for walks, get out into nature, meditate, like all those things we know.

Lisa Heacock:

But one of the things that helped me personally was surrounding myself with supportive, loving, you know, life breathing, not energy draining, vampire friends yeah Right. That to me was like I had my people and anybody else. I didn't have any energy to give to anybody, and if they were draining my energy, I had to protect my energy at all costs, and so, therefore, I either put them on the shelf just for a while, like they're not I don't despise them, I just they just drain my energy or I kick them off the shelf, like I really don't like, like what are. Who are you know? Who are you we? You no longer serve me, I'm not here to serve you, kind of. You know, toxic relationships I would literally have to get rid.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah.

Lisa Heacock:

And it was the best thing that I did and that, to me, is one of the best self-care that you can do.

Nika Lawrie:

I mean, I think that's a good self-care at any time, not just grief for sure. Yes, true, 100%. Yeah, it's really understanding kind of having those self-boundaries, you know, and it's okay to have those people in your life, but really understand the time and place to kind of keep them in, if that makes sense.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think when we're talking about grief or loss of any kind and you're really in this dark place, it becomes again, like I said, within. When you are in that place, it's almost like this light is just shining on these areas. If you're self-aware, it's shining on the areas that you may not have seen before, but it certainly highlights it and it feels even heavier, you know, or a toxic relationship or a toxic friendship, or an energy drainer, or it just becomes even more obvious.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, yeah. So this kind of answered sort of a question that I was going to ask. But you know, one of the things I hear a lot around it's almost like a cultural thing around grieving and especially when it's fresh is there's an expectation that people aren't supposed to feel any joy or laughter when they're going through the grieving process. And then two people tend to feel like, well, it's been a year, you should be over the grief. So the question is is it okay to feel joy and laughter, especially early on, when you are grieving? And then, is there a set timeframe to you know the grieving process, right?

Lisa Heacock:

Well, I mean, there are no rules. And I think we love to put rules and like put things in little boxes and put a little bow on it and make it all pretty. And it's just not, there just isn't any rules to it. It and make it all pretty, and it's just not, there just isn't any rules to it. So I'll answer your last question Absolutely no timeframe whatsoever. I mean, I say to people like, how long will you be grieving Well, how long will they be dead? I mean, that is how long I'll be grieving them.

Nika Lawrie:

That's a great way.

Lisa Heacock:

But will I be suffering? So is there a difference between grieving and missing someone and suffering? That's a difference. In the acute grief there's a lot of suffering, right, and there's no timeframe on that, absolutely 100%. You can still have laughter, you can still have great relationships, you can still be happy in certain areas, and expert grief experts and he said, you can fully live and fully grieve at the same time. Those two things can coexist.

Lisa Heacock:

And so sometimes there's that guilt that comes up like, oh, I'm laughing, oh I shouldn't be like. But for me personally, especially when it came to my parents, I know you're supposed to bury your parents Like this is the way it's supposed to work. You parents die first. You'd never you shouldn't be burying your children. That just is out of order. Um, but you know, I wasn't even 50 years old. You know what I mean. And when you still lose your parents it doesn't matter what age they're, like your mom and dad and there's your DNA, right there's a huge loss. So not to minimize that and I think that that's important. But I always thought, like, what would my mom like? I could hear my dad going no, don't cry for us. You almost hear him cheering for you, and because I had great parents, I'm fortunate in that, and so I kind of think, well, would they want me to be in my bed all the time?

Lisa Heacock:

It's such a deep suffering. It does not mean I wasn't fully grieving, but I would watch something funny on Netflix just to laugh, just to get that laughter and spend time with friends and family. My girls always make me laugh and, to be fair, even after Jack passed and it was just horrific, this is, I would say, it was New Year's Eve, so he passed away on the 30th of November 2019. So on New Year's Eve in 2019, a month later, his parents had a house full of all the kids that all grew up you know, they're all adults now and we were telling stories about Jack and laughing and they were having great laughs about the funny things that he did, and that, to me, was a beautiful example of fully living and fully grieving at the same time, and I truly believe that you have to go after it, like it doesn't come naturally. You have to go seek it out and you have to, whatever it is that will help you find some joy and peace, you know, during a really dumpster fire of a time.

Nika Lawrie:

Absolutely yeah. Are there things that we can do as, say, like the partner or the friend or, you know, the loved one of somebody who is grieving. What are, what are, some of the things that we can do to support them?

Lisa Heacock:

Uh, you know I love this question. It was like my favorite question because we are, so we are grief illiterate, but I think we're getting a lot better. Um, and grief and loss of any type, especially the loss of loved ones, like it's going to happen, it's just a part of life, is death right? And I wrote this kind of guide, free guide, of how to support loved ones who are grieving any type of loss. But if we're talking about loss of loved ones who've passed away, some of the kind of do's and don'ts, really just as real practical stuff. I mean don't say you know they're in a better place. Don't say time heals all wounds, you know. Don't say it's been a year, you know, like hello, or like just wait for a year and then you'll be fine, like just don't, just don't, don't say anything.

Lisa Heacock:

I think we're, we feel really uncomfortable when people are hurting and we, to be fair to the friends and family, they don't want you to hurt, so they're trying to have you not hurt, but you will and you are and it's not going to change. So how can we be more helpful than hurtful, right? Yep, exactly. So I always say think of the things that you do every day. So you do the dishes. If you have children, you take your children to school, or you've got dogs that need to walk, you have to go to the grocery store every so often. These clean cook all the things that you would normally do without even thinking about. It is nearly next to impossible for someone who is in acute grief.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, so if your friend has lost their dad or their partner or whatever they've got, they're going through such a difficult time, even in a divorce. Let's say, I'm going to the grocery store to get some milk, do you like, do you need anything to get some milk? Did you like, do you need anything? And I was talking to a guest on my show and she said she had lost a son. And she said for a year and a half her friend went to the grocery store every week for her A year and a half. And the reason was is because when you go up to the Castro, just especially in the state, how are you today? You know, and it's like, well, I'm like really, it's awful, like you're not going to you're not going to talk about it and you don't want to hear that question.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, so I think that that's also a really. Those are just some practical things. But also in that question. So some people like how are you? They know that you're not okay and they don't know how or what to say. So I would normally you could say to people like I know you're not okay, but like where are you at? Like even scales, sometimes like 10's, a really hideous day, you know. One is like I'm, I mean, I'm here, you know, and and kind of where are you in that? Um, and then it's, that's, it's the standard, like you don't have to actually say anything yeah, you just kind of be there.

Nika Lawrie:

Let them know you're here, yeah.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, and it does depend on the relationship. So you know, I mean, if you're not super close, you don't need to be at the doorstep. Maybe they don't want that, right, but so it does depend on the relationship. But I always say to people like you can send a message and just start out. This is what I always say Start out with. You, do not need to respond, because they're probably getting loads of messages, which hopefully they are, because people love them. But it's pressure. Now I need to respond, because then they're going to think I don't like them and they don't need that. So you don't need to respond. I just want you to know I'm here. If you need anything, I'm here and, like you're on the peripheral, you're there and they know it. And every so often, sending them messages, the worst thing that you can do is ignore them.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, I have a. I have a dear friend who lost her brother a couple of years ago. Who lost her brother a couple years ago, and she said one of the hardest parts was that many of the people in her circle didn't know how to deal with her grief, so they just ignored her or stopped talking to her. And she said that was one of the most painful, detrimental parts of the whole process.

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, and that I hear a lot of. I didn't really have that with my core people but, like for me, that to me is just not acceptable.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah.

Lisa Heacock:

So that is the. That is one of the worst things that people can do. So you don't know what to say, say, I have no idea what to say. I'm just going to sit here with you and you know, let you cry and I'll cry with you and we'll just have a cry fest.

Nika Lawrie:

I mean sometimes it's OK to say nothing, Exactly. That is the best thing you know, like yeah just, they just need to know that you're there. Yeah, that's all care.

Lisa Heacock:

Mm, hmm, yeah.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, lisa, I have one more question for you, but before I get to that, can you tell me where can people connect with you? How can we, you know, either for life coaching or grief support? Where are you online? How can people find you?

Lisa Heacock:

Yeah, I mean, my website is holisticlifecoachingorguk. I am on Instagram at holistic underscore coach, underscore Lisa. I am on Instagram at holistic underscore coach, underscore Lisa, and Facebook is Lisa. Well, actually it's my maiden name. Lisa Marie Messicks is where they can find me. I can be found on my website. It has all that stuff.

Nika Lawrie:

I'll put everything in the show notes too. Yeah, great, yeah. So, lisa, my last question for you today and you probably kind of already touched on this but what is something kind of game changing that you've either learned or experienced that you would like to share with others, to inspire them to live a great life?

Lisa Heacock:

Well, you know, I've been I've always kind of been addicted to personal development, but for me it truly is about seeking help. We're not meant to do this life alone, and so, whatever that looks like for the person, do whatever you need to do is, in a healthiest way possible, to move forward. Grab, grab it everything, anything and everything that you can, because you're not supposed to do it alone. Life is short and fragile and in my view, it's like you better. You better live it like. Grab a hold of it, do whatever you need to do in order to live a happy, healthy life that you, you know, desire and you deserve. Um, I mean, we're not meant to be like, miserable we're not, yeah, yeah, at all at all.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, lisa, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for the work that you're doing and how you're supporting other people and really helping change lives. I think that's such an important thing and powerful, so thank you for both. I really appreciate it.

Lisa Heacock:

Well, thanks for having me. It's been great, absolutely.

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Nika Lawrie

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